Skip to content
New issue

Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.

By clicking “Sign up for GitHub”, you agree to our terms of service and privacy statement. We’ll occasionally send you account related emails.

Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account

Choice matters. A lot. #46

Merged
merged 3 commits into from
Mar 16, 2020
Merged

Choice matters. A lot. #46

merged 3 commits into from
Mar 16, 2020

Conversation

martinthomson
Copy link
Collaborator

No description provided.

@wkumari
Copy link

wkumari commented Mar 12, 2020

I agreed to change from DISCUSS to Abstain if this change was made - email thread for the curious / archives: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-and-github/vnXiskU2VGIx8VenEP34GWGfOwM/

A PR is close enough to integrated for me...

@mnot
Copy link
Contributor

mnot commented Mar 12, 2020

@wkumari I'm curious why this change is adequate; it's effectively just a rewording. It doesn't address the issue of the group choosing to adopt the policies.

@wkumari
Copy link

wkumari commented Mar 12, 2020

@mnot: Yes, it is just a rewording -- but (for me at least) it made it enough clearer that this was optional (WGs can choose to use GH, not WGs are expected to use GH) that I was willing to move to Abstain instead.

The WG has consensus, and the charter sent us down the "GH FTW!" path - it isn't appropriate for me to block this just because I don't like it / think there is a better way of using RCS tooling / GH. The process was followed, and the document is valuable - I don't like the tone, I don't like the implication, but it now falls into the "Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man..." territory.
(There isn't a technical objection, nor do I think it is specifically dangerous to the IETF / IETF stream, so...)

@mnot
Copy link
Contributor

mnot commented Mar 12, 2020

@wkumari - OK. This is made moot by the other changes that Martin made to the draft, but to be clear, I don't think that's a good line of argumentation.

The WG was charted to an explicit scope - that WGs had to opt into the practices it documented. If it were producing a document that exceeded that scope (which is arguably did before the recent change referenced above), saying that the WG "has consensus" to violate its charter is meaningless, and letting that stand is damaging.

That's because charters allow people to decide whether or not they're going to follow a WG. If a WG can violate its charter and justify that with "but we had consensus to do so", charters are meaningless, and the check that requiring IETF consensus places upon WGs is seriously diminished.

Co-Authored-By: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
@martinthomson martinthomson merged commit d78b6e4 into master Mar 16, 2020
@martinthomson martinthomson deleted the warren branch March 16, 2020 03:49
Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment
Labels
None yet
Projects
None yet
Development

Successfully merging this pull request may close these issues.

None yet

4 participants